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Please, recommend a good synth

Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:29 am

Spadz wrote:I also have several models of samplers, from 12bit to 16bit. They all have there features, character and quirks! Love'em all.

I got an Akai S2000 sometime ago, but I haven't done anything with it yet. Do you know were I could find sample libraries that I could load into the sampler? I'm a bit lazy about sampling myself. How do you use yours?
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:59 am

There are a few online sample libraries specially for Akai, though they can be hard to find. I think there is a Yahoo! group one, though as I don't have an Akai sampler I've never joined.

This link may help to find something though and if you have access to a Windoze machine, there are a number of utilities for directly reading and saving in Akai floppy format floating around the tinterweb.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:27 pm

mal7921 wrote:This link may help to find something though and if you have access to a Windoze machine, there are a number of utilities for directly reading and saving in Akai floppy format floating around the tinterweb.

Thanks a lot for the link, Malcom. I'll have a look at home.

About those utilities you mentioned, I found some myself, but they require either SCSI or Windows 9x. The one for the Atari (AkaiSeX), doesn't work for me either. When I try to read an Akai disk, it gives me an error :? What works OK is the dump through MIDI. A bit slow, but I managed to transfer samples from the Akai to the Atari, also the other way round, but for some reason couldn't play it once on the sampler. I guess I should dedicate some time to read the manual carefully and play a bit with the sampler to get used to.
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby Spadz » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:54 pm

Nice link Mat.

I use my samplers has synths, and I rarely use premade samples... That being said, I always use a PC between samples and the samplers.
What I mean is that I always sample in the PC first, then modify to my taste, then send to the sampler. The sending part is different from one sampler to another...

E-Synth (E4) and Yamaha A3000: SMDI (SCSI)
AKai S950 adn S900(just got it but should be the same) and the Roland S-550: Re-sample from PC to sampler. The 16bit to 12bit transforms done by MIDI transfert programs suck. They loose info and I prefer the result of sampling by the sampler itself. It's easy to manage to get the perfect signal level from the PC to the sampler and let the sampler do it's job of converting the signal into 12bit. So I sample on the PC at 24bit to get the closest to the original, then let the sampler do it's 12bit magic.
On these, of course, I only preprocess on the PC (modifying, compression, whatever). I do the looping in the sampler itself.
The E4 and A3000 can read the looping information from SMDI.
Spadz

MegaST4,STacy 2, Notator SL 3.51/Unitor 2.
several Synths, guitars, stuff and a PC/Reaper/E-mu 1820m "recorder".
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:31 pm

What kind of samples you use on your sampler machines? I mean, with my Yamaha PSRE323 and the new adquired E-mu Ultraproteus I have lots of sounds like strings, pianos, organs, guitars, etc. Also I have a Roland TD-3 for the drums. What sounds I could be using with the Akai S2000? I know, I'm a complete newbie on samplers :oops:
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:59 pm

Years ago when The Mix was running, they gave away CD's on the front cover with samples of instruments they had reviewed that month, and other stuff that could be of interest. Later they did the 'Studio Samples' series with things like Roland TR series kits, vocal hits, strings, piano and all sorts of things. All of these could be samples, or loaded into an editor on the PC the transferred to your sampler over whatever connection you could muster.

It was a pretty good way of expanding your sound source without buying masses of kit.

But you can always think outside the box to get some unique sounds. How about sampling a tennis ball thrown against a wall for a really tight kick sound? Do a Gary Neuman and sample the sound of chains being dragged along a concrete floor? Anything is possible.

If you listen to the sounds in the Lob Story series on my (Other) website, the bubbles were done by me, sampled into my old Roland S-330, I still have those sounds and they are still in use to fill in for other effects all over the place.

The trouble with a sampler is that it opens up the possabilities so wide, it can take time to actually realise just what you have in that little white box of magic.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

The website and the Atari bit
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:33 pm

Also the thing to remember is that there is no right or wrong way to use a sampler (Unless you just power it on and expect it to work ;)). Some people I know have spent hours building up large sample libraries that they never use, while others sample stuff they feel they can use when they need it.

While I don't have the complete sample library from the Mix, I'd be happy to duplicate done of the disks for you if you wanted, or put a few interesting compilations together.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

The website and the Atari bit
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:35 pm

Hmmm, I guess I'm used more to synths and sound modules, where you have already sounds and just use them on your compositions. But I'm a bit clueless about samplers. I think best solution will be to start sampling something and start playing with it, to discover what can (and what cannot) be done.

mal7921 wrote:While I don't have the complete sample library from the Mix, I'd be happy to duplicate done of the disks for you if you wanted, or put a few interesting compilations together.

Thanks a lot, but don't worry. I don't want to bother you with such work. Maybe in the future I'll ask you ;)
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby Spadz » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:36 pm

That is what is fun with a sampler, being creative and sample all sorts of things.
I admit I don't do much tennis ball sampling. I'll produce some basic samples with my synths and use that to make a sound.
Specially cool to make electronic drum samples.

I'm the type to sample and make a preset on the fly. I don't know how much time i spent in the past making sounds I never use. While recording a song, I get an idea and do it.

You have to experiment...it's all about experimenting. Once you start, then you'll want to get an 8 or 12bit sampler to make more crunchier sounds or loops!

I think you feel kinda lost and you are not sure where to start... I know the feeling. You wish there where some kind of tutorial somewhere. I wish I had time to make one.

I know you have a proteus and the Akai, but what is the rest of your setup? Computers, recorders, sequencers... It might give me a hint to suggest some kind of exercise you could do to get started.
Spadz

MegaST4,STacy 2, Notator SL 3.51/Unitor 2.
several Synths, guitars, stuff and a PC/Reaper/E-mu 1820m "recorder".
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:49 pm

Spadz wrote:I think you feel kinda lost and you are not sure where to start... I know the feeling. You wish there where some kind of tutorial somewhere. I wish I had time to make one.

You read my mind :mrgreen: I'm always looking for THE tutorial for everything I do. Some years ago I started developing a (bad) feeling of wasting my time and not having enough time for what I want to achieve. I guess some kind of post 30s crisis :lol: But you and Malcom are right. I should experiment a bit and enjoy it.

Spadz wrote:I know you have a proteus and the Akai, but what is the rest of your setup? Computers, recorders, sequencers... It might give me a hint to suggest some kind of exercise you could do to get started.

Thanks a lot.

For music I use mainly the Falcon030 and Cubase. When everything is completed, I record the sound output with MacBook and Audacity, just for converting to MP3. No post-production. The sound stays at it is.

My current equipment:
Keyboard: Yamaha PSR-E323
Guitar: Ibanez RG350DX connected to Behringer V-Amp3
Drums: Roland TD3
and then the Ultraproteus and the Akai S2000.
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:00 pm

If you have an AU drum machine on the MacBook, edit some drum sounds, sample them into the sampler and hack away to see how you can mangle it further.

Samplers are a blank piece of paper, or an empty arrangement in Cubase, frightening if your unsure what to do next. Anything is possible but you don't know the first step. And therein is the problem, the first step is not the same for everyone.

The Roland W30 was always good because it came with samples in built, so it was like a U-110 with a sampler bolted on, and to my knowlegde was the only dedicated sampler with presets!

The easiest thing to do is start simple, sample something like a string sound from some of your kit using line out and line in ports, try different levels so you understand how the sampler responds to different volumes and how the sample sits in a mix when sampled at differet volume levels. Then look at editing within the sampler, whats available and what it does before moving on to moving sounds into something like ZeroX (Where the fun REALLY starts...)

It's a case of playing around and trying different stuff, figuring out how best to make it all work for you.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

The website and the Atari bit
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:15 pm

Spadz wrote:You have to experiment...it's all about experimenting. Once you start, then you'll want to get an 8 or 12bit sampler to make more crunchier sounds or loops!


I still have a set of TR-808 and TR-909 samples done on my old 12 bit S-330 and they cut through a mix much better than any of today's TR clones or any 16 bit samples of the same devices.

Luckily they also work in the S-750 and STILL cut through just as well, even better when the filter is applied to them.

Can't wait to get home and have a play now, darned work!
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

The website and the Atari bit
User avatar
mal7921
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Huddersfield, U.K.

Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby Spadz » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:54 pm

mal7921 wrote:The Roland W30 was always good because it came with samples in built, so it was like a U-110 with a sampler bolted on, and to my knowlegde was the only dedicated sampler with presets!


My E-mu E-Synth is a E4 sampler with some ROM presets and samples. I have the rare Dance version which has both the E-Synth ROM and the other is from another popular dance/techno proteus module. En E4 is a monster. It sounds large and heavy AND phatt for a digital machine. I would sell just any other synth before this one.

Anyways, since you have a Macbook, I would sample in it and pre-process the samples a bit then send at the proper level to the Akai. At least for cleaning a bit up, dynamics, etc. Or use your Falcon if you wish.
Spadz

MegaST4,STacy 2, Notator SL 3.51/Unitor 2.
several Synths, guitars, stuff and a PC/Reaper/E-mu 1820m "recorder".
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Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby atarisince1989 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:57 pm

mal7921 wrote:look at editing within the sampler, whats available and what it does before moving on to moving sounds into something like ZeroX (Where the fun REALLY starts...)

I have ZeroX installed on my Falcon. I've been able to load/save samples from an Akai S2000 disk, but couldn't make it work on the Akai itself. I load the samples, but then I cannot play them. Looks to me (though I'm a bit green in this field) that I should have samples and programs created, for the Akai to reconize it. The manual doesn't give too much details.

I'll follow your advices and sample something directly on the sampler, and from there, I hope, I'll start understanding it a bit more.
My toys:
- Atari 520 STE 4MB RAM TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 (running SpareMiNT+TeraDesk) 14MB RAM TOS 4.04 + 4GB Microdrive & external CF slot + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
User avatar
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Posts: 122
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 3:38 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Please, recommend a good synth

Postby mal7921 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:07 pm

Spadz wrote:My E-mu E-Synth is a E4 sampler with some ROM presets and samples. I have the rare Dance version which has both the E-Synth ROM and the other is from another popular dance/techno proteus module. En E4 is a monster. It sounds large and heavy AND phatt for a digital machine. I would sell just any other synth before this one.


I may look out for one of those at some point in the future, and if it has the Z-Plane filter as well, it could almost be a replacement for the Morpheus (Though highly unlikely, I'd run them side by side)
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44

The website and the Atari bit
User avatar
mal7921
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Huddersfield, U.K.

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